Full transcript of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," April 27, 2025
On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- CBS News director of elections and surveys Anthony Salvanto
- Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov
- Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, Democrat of New Hampshire
- Tom Homan, Trump administration border czar
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: As Trump 2.0 nears the 100-day mark, what do Americans think of the job he's doing?
It's been 98 days of an unrelenting avalanche of change that's turned Washington upside down and rankled even our closest international allies. As the impact of those changes are now being felt from coast to coast, what kind of progress report is America giving President Trump on the issues that got him elected, like the economy, inflation, immigration, and border security?
We will check in with the first-term head of Trump's National Economic Council, Gary Cohn, and the administration's point person on immigration, border czar Tom Homan. New Hampshire Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen will also be here.
Plus, what about Trump's campaign promise to end the war in Ukraine on day one? Mr. Trump has been pushing hard for a cease-fire, but he's frustrated with the pace of negotiations and the parties involved. In a rare interview, we talked with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov…
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why should the U.S. believe Russia is serious about ending the war?
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … who gave us some insights from the Kremlin?
(Begin VT)
SERGEY LAVROV (Russian Foreign Minister): I read President Trump's book "The Art to Make a Deal" (sic), and he does not advise to disclose information before – before it's time.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
This morning, our new CBS News poll finds that President Trump's overall approval rating has dropped eight points since his inauguration. And although six in 10 Americans say he is doing what he promised during the campaign, there is some growing concern about some of the policies he's pursuing to fulfill those promises.
For more, we're joined now by CBS News executive director of elections and surveys Anthony Salvanto.
Anthony, you look at those numbers, the president is not doing badly. What explains, though, the decline that we have seen since taking office?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good morning, Margaret.
Look, this is a story about big expectations and big changes. A big majority of Americans think that Donald Trump is making major changes to how the U.S. government works, to how the U.S. economy works.
But it's also a story about focus, especially early in a term. What we see is, increasingly, Americans think that the administration is putting too much focus on trade and tariffs, and not enough on what they see as trying to lower prices.
And prices are really closely connected to how they rate the president, not just overall, but on handling the economy and on handling inflation. Specifically, those ratings are down now to their lowest level of his term.
But the other part on expectations, Margaret, is that, coming into this, Americans told us many expected them to get financially better off under Donald Trump. They were remembering the economy during his first term, when they said it was good. And, so far, we see more Americans saying that they're now financially worse off as a result of those policies, also that less of them think that he's got a clear plan for what to do on trade and tariffs.
So that's kind of undermined confidence a little bit on that. I have to add, his political base, MAGA Republicans, in particular, are still very much behind him and are OK with this. They think the economy is getting better, even as Americans overall say that it's getting worse.
The movement here has come from that segment of folks who kind of were giving him a chance on the economy, not necessarily MAGA voters, but they were saying, OK, they think he can lower prices and lower inflation. And, so far, they haven't seen it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It's always interesting to see how much people associate the prices they pay with the economy, when the president talks about trade, the president talks about deficits, the – right?
And they're saying, it's my grocery cart.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Exactly.
And that's been consistent, not just in this presidency, but back during Joe Biden's as well. It was, what's right in front of you? What am I paying?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
Immigration was a huge issue during the campaign. The president has put it at the centerpiece of his administration policy effort. Is it bolstering him?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, in some ways, very much so, because, first, start with the border, right? Two-thirds of Americans say that his policies have reduced border crossings. That was key in the campaign, so that's seen overall as a success story.
The other part on his deportation plan continues to get majority approval, but it's in the details where we start to see some differences. You see big majorities of Americans say, in principle, it is not acceptable if legal residents are mistakenly deported, mistakenly detained as a result of this program.
And that may be forcing his overall handling of immigration down a little bit, but it also raises these larger questions we have seen in the first 100 days about the powers of a president and how one goes about getting their policies through.
More people say the president should be going through Congress for laws, not just through executive orders. You still see that collective role seen for checks and balances a role for Congress, also that the president should obey, pay attention to the Supreme Court if it rules against him.
And all of that sort of comes back in around to this idea of big things going on in just the first 100 days.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know you will continue to track it.
Anthony Salvanto, thank you.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we turn now to Gary Cohn, who served as the top economic adviser in President Trump's first term. He is now the vice chairman of IBM.
Good to have you back, Gary.
GARY COHN (Former Director, White House National Economic Council): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So we saw the stock market rebound this week. And yet you see in our polling data, you see in economic indicators that there is real concern about what is coming, even recession predictions.
What are you seeing?
GARY COHN: So I think we need to take a step back here.
We entered the year with just unbelievable, euphoric excitement about what was going to happen. We also entered the year with the market sort of priced for perfection. I think, now as we roll forward to where we are today, we're sort of in a world where we're in a price for realistic uncertainty.
And uncertainty is not good for growth. So, we have gone from this excitement to unpredictability. And the unpredictability has to do with, where are we on the economy? And I think that a lot of your data showed there's still a little bit of confusion on the economy right now.
What we have seen for the beginning of the last three months in the early stages of the presidency is, we have seen the consumers starting to be a little bit concerned about tariffs. The concern about tariffs has driven them to preload or front-end buy a lot of the larger items that they were going to buy. So…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Buy them now because they are – might be cheaper than in a few months.
GARY COHN: Right.
We have seen automobile sales at almost all-time record highs. So we see people buying automobiles because they're trying to avoid tariffs. They're buying consumer goods. They're buying washing machines. They're buying technology items. So we have seen the economy actually be in relatively good shape.
So, if you look at the actual data, what people would call hard data coming out of the economy right now, it looks pretty solid. If you look at the softer data – and the softer data is polling data – and you just showed some polling data – there's an awful lot of economic polling data. You start to see much more weakness in the polling data.
So if you look at consumer confidence, consumer confidence is an indication of what I'm thinking I'm going to do going forward. You start to see a lot more weakness in consumer sentiment and in consumer data. And I think that's starting to play through the economy.
This week, we started to see a lot of the major companies in America report earnings for the first quarter. Now, remember, that's backwards-looking, the first quarter, but companies also have a view of what's going on in the second quarter.
So you started to see some of the major consumer-facing brands say, look, our first quarter was pretty good, but we're starting to see signs the second quarter is not going to be as good as we hoped.
We saw it in a fast-food restaurant like Chipotle. We saw it in snack foods for Pepsi-Cola. We saw it in the airlines. The airlines have talked about how difficult their restaurants are. And we have also seen it in the very high-end product. We saw it. And LVMH is warning about sales slowing down.
So we're in this part of the economy where there's this lack of predictability, there's uncertainty, and the consumer is acting that way by sort of withdrawing from the market and only buying the essentials and the necessity products or products they think they can buy today because they may be more expensive tomorrow.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or perhaps not on shelves tomorrow. That's something that we heard some of these retail CEOs privately told the White House in meetings this week.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And our Richard Escobedo reports that, in a separate meeting, the treasury secretary told investors the booking of container ships…
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … that carry goods between China and the U.S., it's down more than 60 percent.
GARY COHN: Right.
Well, we're seeing the data. We're seeing the data coming out of China. And…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That means, if people even want to buy it, it won't be there.
GARY COHN: Yes.
So, what people need to understand is the cycle from a good being sold in China, loaded on a vessel, sailed across the ocean, unloaded in the United States, put in a factory, distributed to a shelf is about eight weeks in the United States.
So if you go back to the April 2 date, when the tariffs kicked in, you're talking about seeing the effect really May 2. So I would say the last couple of weeks of May, you will start seeing this effect here.
So we're a few weeks away from starting to see the early effects of what will happen in the transportation of goods. You're also starting to see many of the small businesses. And this is where it's really interesting.
Small businesses who have to order goods – and you saw a lot of data out of the toy industry recently. The toy industry, which is a really small industry, runs the vast majority of retail toy sales, people who are ordering their toys for Christmas today have to order those toys. Those toys are now coming with a massive 145 percent tariff.
The vast majority of small business toy stores cannot order toys today because they cannot afford the 145 percent tariff. So they're making a conscientious decision.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
GARY COHN: They're either going out of business or they're just going to wait and see what happens.
So, you're right. The lag effect of getting goods to this country will not be felt for another two to four weeks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And there are no active trade negotiations under way, according to the treasury secretary. There may be contact between the U.S. and China, but that's not going to be a quick fix, right?
GARY COHN: Yes. That said, the treasury secretary did acknowledge this week that the relationship between China and the United States is unsustainable.
And I think we have to acknowledge that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He said the trade war, right?
GARY COHN: He said – he did say that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He pumped the brakes on that.
GARY COHN: He did. He did.
But, at the end of the day, the trading issue really has started for better to coalesce around the China issue. I think we're all starting to realize that the country we're most dependent upon in the United States and for our shelves and what we would miss the most would be what comes out of China.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We knew that. You knew that.
GARY COHN: We have always known that.
(LAUGHTER)
GARY COHN: We have always known that. But…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told President Trump that during the first term.
GARY COHN: We have known it.
But the fact that the Treasury Secretary is acknowledging that we are in an unsustainable situation and we have to start negotiating with the Chinese is very important.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They also have to say, we're ready to talk. And they haven't yet. In fact, the Chinese seem to be really holding the line on this so far.
But I also want to ask you about what President Trump has said, because, when you're talking about what's coming down the line, he's indicated that it could be up to the Fed, the Federal Reserve, to cut interest rates to sort of make up for what happened.
He did pull back on his threat to fire the Fed chair.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think there is an interest rate cut that's necessary?
GARY COHN: So, I think the Fed is doing exactly what they were empowered to do.
The Fed is an independent agency with a dual mandate. And their dual mandate, very simply stated, is full employment on one side and stable prices. And their definition of stable prices is an inflation rate at or around 2 percent.
They are in a position right now where they're basically at full employment, inflation at about 2.4 percent. So they're basically saying, we have done our job right now. So there is, in essence, really no reason for us to take action at this moment.
And, on top of that, we have this unpredictable economy. We have this potential instability. We know that the Customs and Border Patrol is starting to collect more and more tariff money every day. We know that those costs have to feed through the economic system. We predict that that will be inflationary, even if it's just a one-time price shock.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
GARY COHN: So there are those that say, look, it is a one-time price shock, it's not inflationary.
But the one time you move prices up, if you're not moving wages up commensurate with the one-time price move, every American is losing purchasing power. So, if you have a fixed-price wage, but the cost of goods goes up once, you can purchase less.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on that point, the president also says, you may pay more here, right, but I got you on the tax cuts.
In fact, he tweeted: "When tariffs cut in" – just this morning, he said this – "many people's income taxes will be reduced or eliminated," and he's going to focus on those making less than $200,000 a year.
This is not going to get done by Memorial Day, is it?
GARY COHN: I don't know. That would be very fast for it to get done.
The other thing we need to understand about tariffs, and I think this is obvious, is, tariffs are highly regressive, meaning that poorer people end up paying a disproportionate percentage of the tariffs…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
GARY COHN: … because they spend 100 percent of their paychecks on goods.
So they're going to Walmart. They're going to their stores. They're buying goods with their paycheck.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
GARY COHN: Wealthier people send a – save a bigger percentage of their paycheck.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
GARY COHN: So, the tariffs are going to affect the poorer people more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We got to leave it there, Gary. We're going to watch this, though.
GARY COHN: OK.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right.
Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The prospects of a cease-fire in Ukraine faded a bit last week, after Russia launched one of the deadliest attacks on Kyiv since last July.
Saturday, President Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy sat down together at the Vatican prior to the Pope Francis' funeral, their first face-to-face meeting since February's Oval Office debacle. Trump later issued a social media post saying that maybe Putin doesn't want to stop the war and is just tapping him along.
On Thursday, just hours after that attack on Kyiv, we spoke exclusively with Russia's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and talked about the potential components of a peace deal.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: European sources say that the U.S. proposal is really just kind of a list of bullet points. Does Russia have details, the details you need at this point, in terms of a formal proposal?
SERGEY LAVROV (Russian Foreign Minister): We are – we are really polite people. And unlike some others, we never discuss in public what is being discussed in negotiations. Otherwise, negotiations are not serious.
To ask for somebody's opinion regarding the substance, go to Zelenskyy. He is happy to talk to anybody through media, even to President Trump.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The national security adviser, Mike Waltz, said last month that President Trump is asking for thousands of Ukrainian children who were taken into Russia to be released now as part of what he called confidence-building measures.
What steps has Russia taken to meet Mr. Trump's request?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Look, long before the request coming from Washington, we have been addressing the issue of the fate of the kids who during the conflict found themselves outside their – their homes, outside their families.
Most of these kids were attending – were attending, what you call it, the place where people without parents…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Orphanage.
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Orphanage. Orphanage.
And as soon as – and we announce whatever – whatever details we have about those kids. And as soon as relevants – I mean, the parents or other relevant – relatives make themselves available, they are getting the kids back. This has been the process for the last almost three years between the ombudsmen of Russia and Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So there's no new release of thousands of Ukrainian children, at the request of President Trump?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: No, nobody – nobody knows why – why some experts advise the president about thousands of Ukrainian children.
Every now and then, once in two, three months, we organize exchanges with Ukrainians with the help of Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, who do not, you know, make any noise about what they're doing. They just do, something which we are participating in, in very constructive manner, bringing kids back to the parents or relatives.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you take President Trump at his word when he says, if Russia is unable to make a deal on ending the bloodshed in Ukraine, he'll put secondary tariffs – I think he means sanctions there – on oil coming out of Russia?
Or do you think that, at this point, the relationship between Russia and America has been rebuilt and that won't happen?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Well, I cannot comment on what you think President Trump meant when he said something.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you think he meant when he said secondary tariffs on oil coming out of Russia?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Well, we hear many things coming from President Trump. President Trump said that he's sick and tired of the situation in this settlement.
And President Trump has his own proposals and has his own style in mentioning those proposals in his public speeches. We concentrate, as I said, on the real negotiations which President Trump supports and instructed his people to continue to engage in these negotiations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Broadly speaking, when you look at what's happening in the battle space in Ukraine right now, analysts say about 18 percent of Ukrainian territory is under the control of Russian forces.
U.S. intelligence says battlefield trends are in Russia's favor. So, if that's the case, why should the U.S. believe Russia is serious about ending the war, if everything is in your favor?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Well, we judge by the reaction of our American colleagues to what we tell them.
And this is being done during negotiations. They're confidential, as any serious negotiation. And they know our position. And Marco Rubio, he publicly said that they – now they better understand the Russian position and the reasons for what is going on.
And he said that nobody in Washington lifted a finger to do the same, to understand – to try to understand Russia during the Biden administration. And – and this – this implies that the dialogue continues, that the dialogue is supported by the United States.
And I reiterate that it is supported by – by the Russian Federation, and this dialogue continues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, President Trump said he expects to meet soon with Vladimir Putin. What's an acceptable time and location? Why should they meet?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Look, the presidents are masters of their own destiny and of their own schedule.
I heard President Trump say that he is planning to be somewhere mid-May, and that, after that, he would be suggesting some days. I cannot add anything else.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you think it would be good for the two leaders to meet soon?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: We're always in favor of meeting with people who are ready for a dialogue.
President Putin repeated this thousands of times, and when we met – in Riyadh together with President Putin's foreign policy adviser, Ushakov, with Marco Rubio and Mike Waltz, the American colleagues clearly stated that the U.S. policy is based firmly on U.S. national interests.
They understand that the Russian policy, led by President Putin, is also based on Russian national interest, and that it is the responsibility of great powers to make sure that, whenever those national interests do not coincide – and this is in most of the cases – this difference should not be allowed to degenerate into confrontation. And that's what dialogue is for.
But they also added that, when the national interests of two countries or of more countries coincide, it would be stupid to miss an opportunity to translate this coincidence into some material, mutually beneficial projects. And this is absolutely our position.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know that President Trump is coming up on 100 days in office, and he has made clear his patience is wearing thin with the diplomacy here.
Do you expect the U.S. and Russia to continue to talk after these potential peace talks fall apart?
FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV: Russia is always available for a dialogue. So you have to address your question to the American side.
Second, you prejudge the current process by saying that eventual collapse of the talks. We concentrate on doing business, not on thinking, you know, failures or victories about anything.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will have more of our interview when we come back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION. We return to our conversation from Thursday with Russia's foreign minister Sergei Lavrov.
(BEGIN VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Others in the Russian government have proposed that the U.S. and Russia could work together in the Arctic. Are there specific areas of discussion for cooperating right now?
SERGEY LAVROV (Minister of Foreign Affairs, Russian Federation): You always want me to disclose things -
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this is a - a public statement.
SERGEY LAVROV: Things - things - things which might be - might be discussed by respective officials of Russia and the United States, by those who are responsible for trade, economic cooperation, investments and so on and so forth.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm asking what you think the potential is.
SERGEY LAVROV: I read - I read - I read President Trump's book "The Art to Make a Deal." And he (INAUDIBLE) advice to disclose information before - before it's time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Respectfully, President Trump speaks quite a lot about the things he would like to do with Russia, and opportunities to work together. I understand you don't want to.
On the specific things President Trump has said in public is that the U.S. could work with Ukraine to operate the largest nuclear power plant in Europe, which is in an area you know, Zaporizhzhia. Russians control it - that area right now. Do you agree with President Trump's public statements that the best security would be for the U.S. and Ukraine to operate that together?
SERGEY LAVROV: No, we - we never received such an offer. And if we do, we would explain that the power station Zaporizhzhia power - nuclear power station is run by the Russian Federation state cooperation called Rosatam (ph). It is being under monitoring of the IAAA personnel (INAUDIBLE) located on the site. And if not for the Ukrainian regular attempts to attack the station, and to create a nuclear disaster for Europe, and for Ukraine as well, the safety requirements are fully implemented. And it is in very good hands.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, that's a no?
SERGEY LAVROV: No, I don't think - I don't think any change is conceivable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. Because that was in a public statement from the White House to the media.
SERGEY LAVROV: We - we - as I said, we did not receive any proposal which would be specific.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But I just want to be abundantly clear because that is also widely reported to be in the U.S. proposal currently on the table.
SERGEY LAVROV: Why don't you ask me about President Trump's position on Crimea?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You liked what President Trump said about Crimea when he said that it had been under Russian control since 2014?
SERGEY LAVROV: It's not about liking or disliking. It's about the fact that he said the truth.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump said Crimea is not even being discussed right now.
SERGEY LAVROV: Yes, because this is a done deal.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mean Russia occupies and controls and will not negotiate the future of Crimea? Is that what you're saying?
SERGEY LAVROV: Russia does not negotiate its own territory.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Back in January, Russia signed a deal with Iran to become a strategic partner. Would Russia be willing to sever that relationship at the request of the U.S. if it meant better relations with America?
SERGEY LAVROV: There was never any request like this. And we welcome the process which was initiated between the United States and Iran.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Would you keep Iran's enriched nuclear material that they've made in the past few years, is that an offer of - to the U.S.?
SERGEY LAVROV: I've said - (INAUDIBLE). I - we are not putting our nose in the negotiations between the two countries, one of which is not Russia. We welcome the dialogue between the U.S. and Iran. We would be certainly ready to help if both parties believe this is going to be useful. And they know that we are ready.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you quickly about nuclear weapons because Russia is such a nuclear powerhouse. According to U.S. intelligence, Russia is developing a new satellite meant to carry a nuclear weapon which would knock out other satellites and devastate the U.S. if it's used. That's in publicly published material. Does Russia intend to violate past treaties and actually put a nuclear weapon in space?
SERGEY LAVROV: Well, before asking this question, you have to check whether this is true or not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is what U.S. intelligence says.
SERGEY LAVROV: U.S. intelligence, I was listening to President Trump about his views of what is the list of achievements of U.S. intelligence? I have my own facts on which I rely.
We have been promoting for many years, in the United Nations, a resolution prohibiting putting any nuclear weapons into outer space. The country which is categorically against it is the United States.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying the Trump administration's intelligence community findings are incorrect in regard to Russia developing a new satellite meant to carry a nuclear weapon?
SERGEY LAVROV: We denied those allegations. I cannot comment about the validity of the intelligence reports. As I told you, we never received any facts which would confirm the allegations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you have any interest in arms control talks with the United States, with the Trump administration?
SERGEY LAVROV: If the United States is willing to get back to this track, we will see what are - what are the conditions under which this might be possible. As long as in the U.S. doctrinal documents, doctrinal documents we are described as adversary, when the officials in Washington called some time ago called us enemy, so we want to understand what Washington thinks of our relationship and whether Washington is ready for - I would emphasize once again, an equal, mutually respectful dialogue heading to finding a balance of interest. If this is the approach, everything is possible.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: You can watch our full conversation with Foreign Minister Lavrov on our website and on our YouTube page.. Just search FACE THE NATION.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to New Hampshire Democratic Senator Jeanne Shaheen.
Senator, President Trump repeated his threat Saturday to look at potential sanctions on Russia. Senator Lindsey Graham tweeted he's got nearly 60 co- sponsored for a sanctions bill. Yet in our interview, Minister Lavrov basically said their economy is self-sufficient and sanctions don't matter. Are they actually leverage at all?
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): Well, I think we ought to take up the Graham legislation and we ought to pass it through both houses and put those secondary sanctions on Russia. And the fact is, I've been watching Minister Lavrov for 16 years, since I've been in the Senate, and he is very adept at talking a lot and saying nothing. And in that interview, as we know, he refused to acknowledge Russia's aggression into Ukraine, he refused to acknowledge that it's Russia that's firing on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, not the Ukrainians, he refused to acknowledge that children from Ukraine who have been disappeared into Russia, kidnapped there. He - he does not - he's an excellent provocateur who never takes a position that is in opposition to what he believes is Russia's interest.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Fair summary there as to his abilities to evade direct answers, but he did directly answer on the sanctions bit, saying – trying to brush off these threats.
Given the vote count, do you think that you could actually get this to be veto proof? That you could force President Trump to put these sanctions on Russia and get congressional leadership to actually allow you to vote in the first place?
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: Well, I do. And I think, in fact, the administration has been working with Senator Graham and certainly understands that this is legislation that is in the works and that there is some real benefit as Vladimir Putin continues to drag his feet, to do everything he can to play for more time so that they're able to take more territory in Ukraine and to better advance Russia's position. This is something that can help slow them down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about the oversight roles you have on some of the committees you serve on. At the State Department, Secretary of State Rubio announced a major reorganization this past week with plans to reduce staff by 15 percent eventually. It will also condense certain bureaus or eliminate them. One is them is the Office of Global Women's Issues. And I know you have personally worked with many of these diplomats. Can Rubio just eliminate it with the stroke of a pen?
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: Well, I noticed that one of the things in your polling that people were not happy about was the actions by the administration without oversight and advise and consent from Congress. And this is what this administration is talking about, what Secretary of State Rubio is talking about. They're talking about going in, making these changes without really consulting with Congress.
The reason we have an office of global women's issues is because what we know about foreign policy is that those countries that have women who are empowered are more stable. We know that women give back more to their communities, to their countries, to their families than men do. And there's a good reason why we have an office of global women's issues, because it helps us as we think about our foreign policy. And it's been one of the advantages that the United States has had over our adversaries, like China and Russia and Iran.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It had previously received support from the president's daughter, Ivanka Trump, who I know you worked with during that first administration.
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I worked very closely with Ivanka. And she was very supportive of the Office of Global Women's Issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll watch what happens to it.
I need to ask you about Armed Service, a committee on which you also serve. A number of political appointees at the Pentagon have been fired or resigned in recent days, which means the secretary of defense currently has no chief of staff, no deputy chief of staff, and no senior advisor for policy. Does it concern you that he doesn't have this kind of architecture around him? And what is Congress doing in terms of oversight?
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: It concerns me greatly that he - he has created chaos at the Pentagon. The fact is, Pete Hegseth was not qualified to take the job as secretary of defense, and he has shown that time and again. He showed it with his sharing classify information on a Signal chat with the recent sharing of information again with his wife, with his brother, with his lawyer on a Signal chat, inappropriate, to take classified information and then share it in an unclassified source with people who do not have the credentials to hear that information.
He has created chaos that is now embroiling uniform - our uniformed military in the chaos that he's creating at the Pentagon without having the appropriate people to run things. And he's not taken responsibility for his actions. And for those people who serve under him, he has shown that he is not the kind of role model, not the kind of leader that we need at this time.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very quickly, it's sensitive information the Pentagon is looking into through this inspector general inquiry, whether it was classified. Do you have any idea when you will get a clear answer?
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: I don't. And I think it's important that that's a bipartisan request to have that investigation done, to see what was appropriate. And, hopefully, they will come out soon with recommendations.
You know, one of the things - the concerns that I raised with the secretary of defense was what the tariffs are doing to the supply chain for our Department of Defense. We know that the Ukraine war showed us that we have some real challenges with our defense industrial base. Those are being made worse by these tariffs. I was at a company in New Hampshire last week that does ball bearings for the aerospace industry. They told me that because of the tariffs on steel, that what used to take them 20 weeks to get steel, they're now having a two-and-a-half-year backlog.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Wow.
SENATOR JEANNE SHAHEEN: That puts a real strain on our Department of Defense.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I know you've sought more information on that.
Senator, we'll have to leave it there for today.
Thank you for joining us.
We'll be back in a moment.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined now by President Trump's border czar, Tom Homan.
Good morning to you, sir.
TOM HOMAN (White House Exec. Assoc. Dir., Enforcement and Removal Operations): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We see in our polling some support for the president's policies here. We know that overall border crossings are at the lowest monthly level we have seen. Just over 7,000 migrants came across in March and were apprehended.
But given the fact that you're still waiting on Congress to give you funding, do you think that's going to handicap your ability to carry out these policies?
TOM HOMAN: Well, look, I think we've been very successful. And we got - we got the most secure border in the history of this nation. And President Trump was able to accomplish that in seven weeks. That's something that Joe Biden didn't - wouldn't do in four years.
But, yes, the more money we have, the more we can do. The border is more secure it's ever been in the history of the nation, but we need more funding for interior operations, ICE operations, to arrest the most public safety threats, national security threats and others in the United States.
Again, the number is about three times higher than it were during the Biden administration as far as ICE arrests to the interior. But with more money, we can do more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, let's talk about what's happening on the interior.
On Friday there were three American citizen children born here who were deported along with their mothers from Louisiana down to Honduras. And according to advocates, one of them is a four-year-old child with stage four cancer, a rare form of metastatic cancer, who was sent back to Honduras without getting to talk to a doctor and without medication. I understand this child's mother entered this country illegally, but isn't there some basis for compassionate consideration here that should have allowed for more consultation or treatment?
TOM HOMAN: Well, there certainly is discretion. I'm not aware of this specific case. But no U.S. citizen child was deported. Deported means you got to be ordered - reported by the immigration judge. We don't deport U.S. citizens. These children were - were -
MARGARET BRENNAN: The mother was deported, along with the children.
TOM HOMAN: The children aren't deported. The mother chose to take the children with her.
Look, when you enter the country illegally, and you know you're here illegally, and you choose to have a U.S. citizen child, that's on you. That's not on this administration. If you choose to put your family in that position, that's on them. But having a U.S. citizen child after you enter this country illegally is not a get out of jail free card. It doesn't make you immune from our laws. If that's the message we send to the entire world, women are going to keep putting themselves at risk to come to this country. Now, if we send a message, you're going to enter the country illegally, which is a crime, that's OK, you can have due process, get - at taxpayer expense, get ordered to move, that's OK, don't leave, but have a U.S. citizen child and you you're immune from removal? That's not the way it works.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you don't think there should be compassionate consideration for a four-year-old child undergoing treatment for cancer?
TOM HOMAN: I didn't say that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that was the question.
TOM HOMAN: I said there - there - ICE officers do have discretion.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
TOM HOMAN: ICE officers do have discretion. I'm not familiar with the specific case. I don't know what facts surround this case. I'm just made aware of this when you - when you mentioned it this morning. I was not aware of that case.
MARGARET BRENNAN: On Friday a federal judge who was appointed by President Trump said a two-year-old American citizen child had been sent to Honduras with the mother, who was deported. But the judge said, quote, there was no meaningful process.
So, again, this is another similar situation and dynamic. Shouldn't there be special care when these deportation cases involve small American-born children?
TOM HOMAN: Well, first of all, I disagree with the judge. There was due process. That female had due process at great taxpayer expense and was ordered by an immigration judge after those hearings. So, she had due process. Again, this is parenting 101. You can decide to take that child with you or you can decide to leave the child here with a relative or another spouse. Having a U.S. citizen child doesn't make you immune from our laws of the country. American families get separated every day by law enforcement. Thousands of times a day when a parent gets put in jail the child can't go with them. These - if you're an illegal alien, come to this country, and you decide to have a U.S. citizen child, that's on you. You put yourself in that position.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, when it came to this particular case, you just pointed out that - that they could have made arrangements. The father tried actually to make arrangements, as we understand it through our reporting. But he and the mother, who were separated, since she was in detention after showing up for her appointment, was only allowed a very brief phone call. The father tried to petition to get the child handed over to an American citizen relative. So, the mother had to make this decision and took the child with her. It just seems like there could be some more time frame here around due process allowed. That's what the judge is saying - is saying there should have been more of a process here.
TOM HOMAN: There was due process. The two-year baby - the two-year-old baby was left with the mother. So, the mother signed a document requesting her two-year-old baby go with her. That's the parent's decision. I don't - you know, I don't think the judge knows specifics of this case. The two-year- old went with the mom. The mom signed a paper saying I want my two-year-old to go with me. That's a - that's a parent's decision. It's not a government decision, it's a parent's decision.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The father wrote a note. And, yes, we have to leave it there.
Director, thank you for your time today.
We'll be right back.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: Pope Francis was laid to rest yesterday in Rome. Our Chris Livesay has our report.
(BEGIN VT)
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice over): Of all the world leaders coming to the funeral of Pope Francis, no one raised both more tension and excitement than President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. As the funeral for Pope Francis progressed in St. Peter's Square, we met Olga Vilsaka (ph) from Ukraine.
OLGA VILSAKA, UKRAINE RESIDENT: He aways said, please pay for Ukraine. Please remember the suffering people of Ukraine.
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice over): The papacy has always been a political, as well as a religious institution. Pope John Paul II used it to speak out against communism and is widely seen as having played a role in the fall of the Soviet Union.
Monsignor Carl Castille (ph), who's lived through seven papacies, says Francis was just as outspoken.
MONSIGNOR CARL CASTILLE: And not everybody liked it. But whether it was the president of the United States or the president of a Russian Federation, or whoever, he would say what he thought was the right thing to say for the pope.
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice over): In 2016, while returning from a trip to Mexico, that meant speaking out against U.S. conservatives over a mass migration when he said, "a person who thinks only about building walls is not Christian." Then candidate Donald Trump fired back.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: For a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful.
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice over): Francis and his social agenda will no doubt be on the minds of cardinals when they elect a new pope next month.
MONSIGNOR CARL CASTILLE: In the recent past, we've had several cases of folks who have had enormous political influence as well. It all depends on whether or not they are listened to.
CHRIS LIVESAY (voice over): It's a point not lost on Vilsaka from Ukraine.
CHRIS LIVESAY: Do you think that in Pope Francis' death, at this very funeral, peace might eventually come?
OLGA VILSAKA: God willing. God willing.
(END VT)
CHRIS LIVESAY (on camera): Zelenskyy said his meeting with Trump could be historic if they achieve joint results. Hours later, as President Trump was flying back to the U.S., he took to social media to blast Russian President Vladimir Putin for firing missiles into civilian areas.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was our Chris Livesay in Rome.
That's it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.
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